Layer 3 — conversation archaeology · 26,154 documents
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| chat_conversations__7102565a8d60a422 | But, I mean, even if they did do that, it wouldn't stand up in court. Right? You'd think so, but it's tricky. If the DNA match itself is solid—like that five thousand CN count you mentioned—it might… | — |
| chat_conversations__68b2c8829fd0b0c6 | But you're saying they don't even use CN data in court. Okay. I'm sorry. What data do they actually submit to the court? As evidence again? They submit the STR DNA match results showing the suspect's… | — |
| chat_conversations__b0831d3b3cb20e84 | So, basically, everything about the process Right. Everything about how they found the suspect—the genealogy, the family tree, the trash pull, all of it—stays out of court. Only the final DNA match… | — |
| chat_conversations__8cb48487226a6f57 | of getting to the suspect and the actual DNA match is shady. Is shady seems like, crackpot sometimes, but fact of the matter, in the end, they're submitting information that this DNA matches this… | — |
| chat_conversations__b521387e607d9231 | So What are you thinking? | — |
| chat_conversations__b27edc1c8c8c8f94 | So we wouldn't know We wouldn't know what? Go ahead. | — |
| chat_conversations__0220b9e14ed6ab8c | until that evidence is actually submitted in court if they actually really do have a true match. Until that evidence is actually submitted in court that we actually have a true match. That's exactly… | — |
| chat_conversations__ec9ce66888062a34 | Not really. I mean, that's pretty solid if they have the match. You're right. If the DNA match itself is genuine and statistically solid—like that five thousand CN count—then it doesn't matter much… | — |
| chat_conversations__e5e3ea595f42ad24 | yeah but what have they actually brought to court what have IGG investigations actually been able to submit to court have they always submitted direct matches evidence or have they done it other… | — |
| chat_conversations__ce540b45b3c4d21b | so why did I hear about a case where they were talking about the probability of it not being him what what do they mean by that in igg cases Let me search for what they mean by probability statements… | — |
| chat_conversations__919296013b58b4bc | so could touch DNA possibly lead investigators down the wrong path and not allow for that certain of a probability score in the end on a direct match That's a really good question. Touch DNA is much… | — |
| chat_conversations__e01e17f49c413be2 | so across the board touch DNA could lead to bad IGG investigation and it could lead to a week direct match evidence Exactly. Touch DNA is inherently weaker—lower quality, partial profiles,… | — |
| chat_conversations__9752eb1c8520619c | so I mean theoretically prosecution can come in and say there's a chance that the chance that is not being the suspect is a 1 and 100 chance which would obviously be weak and they could possibly do… | — |
| chat_conversations__169ceaa91b9d04d1 | so, let's just say let's just say can you even get a 5000 CN match on touch DNA That's an excellent question. A 5000 CN match requires a full, high-quality DNA profile. Touch DNA is typically… | — |
| chat_conversations__863b2be9dcea7835 | so I mean most likely virtually impossible to come up with the information that the trash pool is the father of the DNA that was left at the crime scene with touch DNA being that DNA it's impossible… | — |
| chat_conversations__08f779771cbf08bd | well I mean in court they never have to disclose the information about the CN match because that's not admissible all they have to do is give us the information about the direct match Exactly. That's… | — |
| chat_conversations__39d67044531a4eb2 | so I mean but it's regardless in court they submit the direct evidence that is a direct DNA match it's going to be a direct DNA match like but it's going to be a direct DNA match of the touch DNA so… | — |
| chat_conversations__a447111127f68d91 | so I mean so the touch DNA evidence would be would not be able to be cooperated or backed up any more solid by the IGG investigation the idg investigation won't help the touch DNA proof that they… | — |
| chat_conversations__c7f89130211c43f7 | so with touch DNA what kind of probability would they give a jury With touch DNA, you're typically looking at much lower probability scores—maybe 1 in 100, 1 in 1,000, sometimes 1 in 10,000 depending… | — |
| chat_conversations__49e2b8bc6c4470dd | holy shit so in the co-burger case you have offering Labs that's going around acting like they soft they offer they fucking solve the case o h r e m labs but really they haven't done shit and not… | — |
| chat_conversations__9594d430c395993b | so the problem is not with IGG at all IGG could kind of be considered a waste of time to be investigating how that process worked in this case the real thing that should be being focused on is the… | — |
| chat_conversations__f1b308786761d4d9 | So I want you to keep your responses to a minimum. And but not leave out details or information that I'm looking for. And I wanna do a role play and and walk me through the process of how it would… | — |
| chat_conversations__626912268c8a590c | for, DNA evidence to be processed all the way through up to the genetic Let me make sure I understand—you want to roleplay walking through how DNA evidence gets processed in a lab from collection all… | — |
| chat_conversations__bde914c4fd6e9e50 | okay. So I'm a police officer, and I want Got it. You're a police officer and you want to walk through the DNA evidence process. Should I play the role of a lab technician or analyst who explains… | — |
| chat_conversations__84ef9f88c2980724 | And and eventually through the IgG database as well. So let's say I got this evidence and I run it through CODIS Perfect. So you've collected evidence at a crime scene and you're submitting it to… | — |
| chat_conversations__ef3973275b9b21b0 | state database, nothing comes back, and I get authorization. I run it through Got it. No match in your state database, you get a warrant or authorization, then you run it through the national CODIS… | — |
| chat_conversations__f09ef91ee76db017 | the CODIS national database, nothing comes back. No. No. No. You don't need to do all that. And you need to You're right, I'll keep it simpler. National CODIS comes back with nothing. What's next in… | — |
| chat_conversations__c3f88692952d6679 | all my fucking free time with you. I'm trying to get this. So check it out. I already ran through the CODIS database, the state and national. Nothing came back. Now we're about to I hear you. You ran… | — |
| chat_conversations__ba83e919e8aa5826 | run it through the IGG. So I have it. I got no hits. Now I have it. I got no hits. What do I gotta do to run it through the IgG? To run it through the IGG database, you'll need to submit your DNA… | — |
| chat_conversations__9bf6d0c666006a05 | Yeah. So I thought police were not allowed to run it through the consumer IGG databases. You're absolutely right. Police can't directly access consumer genealogy databases like Ancestry or 23andMe.… | — |
| chat_conversations__c53cc6d94b75b1c1 | Is that the common legal workaround for this currently? I need to search for the most current information on this, since law enforcement genealogy practices have been evolving.Actually, law… | — |
| chat_conversations__db185578b05f7942 | So if I work with the genealogist and I give her If you work with a genealogist and give her your DNA profile, she can search consumer databases on your behalf since she | — |
| chat_conversations__1f840139b30ce7cb | the DNA and the DNA she gets a match through her database, whatever it is, and then she submits it back to me. Is she basically he or she basically submitting it back to me as a tip? Exactly. She's… | — |
| chat_conversations__b4f2949d75d50319 | How does an investigative lead or tip differ from a police officer finding physical evidence on the scene and using that as, evidence? Oops. Sorry. I didn't get what you said. Good question. Physical… | — |
| chat_conversations__c00507d47c5f6edd | Okay. So let's say if it's not a IgG, match let's say it's a direct DNA match with a Go ahead—what if it's a direct DNA match with what? | — |
| chat_conversations__c972f82fafeba4c3 | state or national CODIS, database. How is that different from the IGG? What if it was a direct DNA match with CODIS database differ from IGG match? Are they both used as, investigative information,… | — |
| chat_conversations__624709998560d9dc | Okay. Okay. Yeah. That's kind of a big deal. So let's say that the person at the lab let's say, off rim labs is due to the IGG fucking shit, and they fucking say they have a match. What exactly do… | — |
| chat_conversations__70c8bd0054252dc8 | So what are the markers or the match parameters? What are those specifically called? They're called alleles and loci—those are the specific genetic locations and variations they compare between… | — |
| chat_conversations__7012e7aa7f10a6b6 | That they're looking at when they make this determination that the person at what's the common threshold for the alleles to be to make a strong determination that it is part of this family tree. I… | — |
| chat_conversations__88031fd8453f19f1 | How many Centi Morgans are father to son? Father to son is around five thousand centiMorgans—essentially fifty percent of the DNA. That's a direct parent-child relationship. First cousins share… | — |
| chat_conversations__db0c15e3b4f1de96 | No. I always hear about them coming up with some kind of family tree. That's where this happens. Right? How do they develop this family tree that they, go ahead and do the process of elimination and… | — |
| chat_conversations__c09cc02bfa21862f | Okay. So they make this family tree. Right. They build the family tree from the DNA match, then work through it systematically to identify who your suspect might be. What's the next part you want to… | — |
| chat_conversations__f82a28d35cf740ec | what is the process of actually what is the process of actually starting this family tree? Finding They start by looking at the person who matched your DNA, then trace their relatives backwards… | — |
| chat_conversations__01c10887abc649df | a relative that has that many fucking I'm having trouble catching what you're saying. Can you repeat that? | — |
| chat_conversations__c781a4ded9c69398 | So would it be so would it be safe to say that? In court, if you're a defense attorney arguing about this DNA, that would be the place where you would want to attack That would be the place where you… | — |
| chat_conversations__7e6f89c1ae869ef9 | So I'm wondering, like, when they make the determination to start the family tree from there, You're asking what determines when they decide to start building the family tree from a particular… | — |
| chat_conversations__2bdd47f8a2caaba6 | is there any other places that they could decide to start the fam no. I'm not. I'm not. I understand that. You told me it's about the CNs. But I'm saying, could there possibly be other CNs that have… | — |
| chat_conversations__4efba7d896924c9b | Wait a second. So you're saying that there's several 4th to 6 cousins in different branches. Who makes the determination what branch to use? Wait a second. You're telling me that there's possibly… | — |
| chat_conversations__c5ccf5902bdfc2da | Wait a second. So you're telling me that an individual in an office lab makes the determination about which way to go with the case? Yes. The genealogist working with your department makes those… | — |
| chat_conversations__a7b70210b4ad5e17 | So that's who in a defense attorney would attack is that person who made the decision to go down this branch. Exactly. That genealogist becomes a key witness. The defense would attack their… | — |